Camry. No diagnosis. Fuel smell. Nuts.

"Chairman Kaga" (mike-mckinnon)
09/03/2013 at 12:33 • Filed to: None

So update on the Camry sitch. The CEL code is !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! . The guys at the (trusted) shop have run every recommended test and have found nothing. My wife says the smell of fuel is almost overpowering while driving, which does not make me believe this is necessarily the safest problem to leave unresolved. Also smoke on startup (not replicable) and a clunking, grinding sound form the engine bay (again, not replicable).

Anyone know a Toyota guru who could lend advice? I've replaced the fuel cap with an OEM part. Not sure what else to do. I figure it's a bad hose or seal.

The only advice I've gotten so far is to leave it alone, that we'd spend more trying to diagnose and repair the problem than we would if we just waited for it to fail.

2002 Camry LE 4-cyl.

DISCUSSION (13)

Nibbles > Chairman Kaga
09/03/2013 at 12:35

Last time I had the overpowering fuel smell is when my evap canister return line "loosened itself". Check the evap vacuum/purge lines for any degradation / "looseness"?

dogisbadob > Chairman Kaga
09/03/2013 at 12:37

Has the code come back since you replaced the gas cap?

It could be the charcoal canister or VSV. These are a semi-common failure item on high-mileage Camrys.

505Turbeaux > Chairman Kaga
09/03/2013 at 12:39

Check the vent switching valves. I think there is one by the air filter, and a few near the charcoal canister by the rear axle. Run 12V to each of these and see if you get a click. They can be replaced. This should be it from my fuzzy memory of that particular code on Yota's.

I havent seen one of these make the car stink like fuel though, so have them check for leaks, or get under there and see for yourself. Maybe a busted EVAP line is causing both the issues too.

Chairman Kaga > dogisbadob
09/03/2013 at 12:56

It was fine for almost two months after replacing the cap, then started recurring just about every time she filled up. We just had the local auto store reset it. It's just recently the fuel smell has become noticeable, hence the drop off at the shop.

Chairman Kaga > Nibbles
09/03/2013 at 12:58

The lines looked Ok to me... I did not check the VSV though.

J. Walter Weatherman > Chairman Kaga
09/03/2013 at 13:03

A while back I had a problem with gas fumes in my Land Cruiser. I eventually traced it down to a loose evap vacuum hose - the hose from the charcoal canister to the intake manifold had come detached on the manifold side. It was a bitch to trace down (and to reattach - it was on the underside of the manifold, so I couldn't see where it should go, nor could I easily reach it), but reattaching the hose cured the problem immediately and the best part was the fix was FREE.

Chairman Kaga > 505Turbeaux
09/03/2013 at 13:04

The shop did a full smoke test, checked every possible component, all of the fuel lines, and came up with a blank. He wants to keep it overnight and drive it a bit. He doesn't like the idea of releasing a car that is emitting an obvious odor of fuel.

Chairman Kaga > dogisbadob
09/03/2013 at 13:05

Chairman Kaga > J. Walter Weatherman
09/03/2013 at 13:05

They did a smoke test, which I assume would indicate any vacuum leaks, with no results.

Stumped.

505Turbeaux > Chairman Kaga
09/03/2013 at 13:08

I dont blame him, though it shouldnt be too hard to find if it stinks that bad. Follow your nose!

J. Walter Weatherman > Chairman Kaga
09/03/2013 at 13:25

I wonder if a generic smoke test is sufficient to rule out all vacuum leaks - there are just so many circuits of vacuum lines that open and close with numerous VSVs on modern cars, I can't help but wonder whether or not all vacuum circuits are open and operating during the test. This is in no way meant to question/disparage your mechanic - it is purely something I wonder about - I have to admit that I am a little clueless about the intricacies of modern emissions systems and I, for one, can never figure out when what should be venting where...

Best of luck figuring it out.

Chairman Kaga > J. Walter Weatherman
09/03/2013 at 13:27

That's the main reason why he's keeping it. He's going to rerun the tests under different conditions, manually operate the valves, etc. A very thorough Australian mechanic.

Union of Smog Techs of CA > Chairman Kaga
09/03/2013 at 13:39

This is super easy, the mechanic needs to be more thorough. There is a flow chart for P0441 that Toyota provides, accesible through ALLDATA or similar. Most likely someone is assuming something is ok when they didn't check it right the first time. Every component has a specific test per the flow chart. I would suspect the canister has let charcoal into one of the hoses and possibly stuck open a solenoid valve somewhere. I ususally just use my nose for this stuff, but not all mechanics have good noses.

A very good mechanic friend with a very good shop was stuck for two weeks with an EVAP leak because his tech said the vent was ok, he was moving in two weeks and was distracted. I once had a Passat that just needed to have the lines dissaseblmed and retightened, easiest fix ever. Not all leaks will be large enough to pass smoke through, we actually use Nitrogen for small leaks. A dye should also have been in the smoke.